Price Deathmatch: Apple MacBook Pro vs. Dell Inspiron E1705
Today's Shuffle Song:
Sweet Surrender by Sarah McLachlan
First, a note. I read on MacWindows that iEmulator will be running on Intel Macs in very short order. I hope it's true.
I decided to see just how much of a price premium (if any still exists) on Macs vs. PCs. This is a much easier task than in the past, because you can match components exactly. I'm starting off today with the MacBook Pro and I'll try to address the iMac soon.
I went to Dell.com and tried to quickly locate a product based on the Core Duo. I couldn't find one easily since Dell divides their product families across stores targeted at different groups of users. So, I used the search feature and found the Inspiron E1705.
I configured the two machines as closely as possible. The only change I made to the MacBook was going with two 512 MB DIMMS instead of one. I had to change several options on the Dell to match the Mac Book (add remote, bigger HD, add DVD burner, add Bluetooth).
Final Price:
MacBook Pro: $2,399
Inspiron E1705: $2,341
These are still not identical machines. The Dell has a dual layer DVD burner vs. the single layer in the MacBook. The Dell's battery is slightly stronger (60 vs. 53 WHr). The MacBook uses a Radeon X1600 Mobility while the Dell uses a GeForce Go 7800. I favor the 7800 slightly. Of course, the MacBook has a built-in camera and backlit keyboard--features unavailable on the Dell. Lastly, and most significantly, the Dell is based around a 17" screen. It has a similar resolution to the MacBook, but is 2" larger. This also makes the Dell much heavier than the MacBook.
In terms of OS choice, things get more complicated. Mac OS X and Windows XP Pro have always been equivalent in my mind. I obviously prefer OS X, but XP has solid SMP support, excellent networking features and features lacking in XP Home.
Now, Mac OS X has Front Row and offers a superior "10 foot" interface when compared to XP Pro. However, you can get Windows Media Center Addition pre-loaded on the Dell for a superior (feature-wise) 10-foot experience to the MacBook. Doing so will save you $149. It doesn't seem possible to gain parity on the OS front for now between the two machines.
When you look at other options, Apple's RAM prices are insane. Moving to 2 GB RAM will cost you $400. That was no surprise. What was shocking was that the Dell was almost as bad at $325. Just go to crucial.com when/if you buy either machine and want additional memory.
Apple's cost to move to a 100GB 7200 RPM drive is $100, while Dell is $324.
In terms of availability, Dell claims a ship date of 2/17. Apple just says "Feb."
I can't help but feel like the famed "Mac price premium" is a myth here. Dell currently offers cheaper Intel based computers than Apple, but feature-for-feature Apple's pricing is fair. I'm posting PDFs of both stores so you can double-check my work.
As always, the comments are open.
MacBookPro.pdf
InspironE1705.pdf
*Update 12:34pm EST* - The biggest problem with this comparison is trying to weigh the value of the Dell's 17" screen against the built-in iSight, backlit keyboard and other features on the MacBook. None of Dell's 15.4" notebooks are available with Core Duo. I've come across the Acer TravelMate 8200. Although the MacBook would have to be downgraded in some respects via a CTO order to match its specs, these look to me a much closer match feature wise. The only issue is, I can't find it for sale anywhere. If you can, please leave a comment so I can do another comparison.
Sweet Surrender by Sarah McLachlanFirst, a note. I read on MacWindows that iEmulator will be running on Intel Macs in very short order. I hope it's true.
I decided to see just how much of a price premium (if any still exists) on Macs vs. PCs. This is a much easier task than in the past, because you can match components exactly. I'm starting off today with the MacBook Pro and I'll try to address the iMac soon.
I went to Dell.com and tried to quickly locate a product based on the Core Duo. I couldn't find one easily since Dell divides their product families across stores targeted at different groups of users. So, I used the search feature and found the Inspiron E1705.
I configured the two machines as closely as possible. The only change I made to the MacBook was going with two 512 MB DIMMS instead of one. I had to change several options on the Dell to match the Mac Book (add remote, bigger HD, add DVD burner, add Bluetooth).
Final Price:
MacBook Pro: $2,399
Inspiron E1705: $2,341
These are still not identical machines. The Dell has a dual layer DVD burner vs. the single layer in the MacBook. The Dell's battery is slightly stronger (60 vs. 53 WHr). The MacBook uses a Radeon X1600 Mobility while the Dell uses a GeForce Go 7800. I favor the 7800 slightly. Of course, the MacBook has a built-in camera and backlit keyboard--features unavailable on the Dell. Lastly, and most significantly, the Dell is based around a 17" screen. It has a similar resolution to the MacBook, but is 2" larger. This also makes the Dell much heavier than the MacBook.
In terms of OS choice, things get more complicated. Mac OS X and Windows XP Pro have always been equivalent in my mind. I obviously prefer OS X, but XP has solid SMP support, excellent networking features and features lacking in XP Home.
Now, Mac OS X has Front Row and offers a superior "10 foot" interface when compared to XP Pro. However, you can get Windows Media Center Addition pre-loaded on the Dell for a superior (feature-wise) 10-foot experience to the MacBook. Doing so will save you $149. It doesn't seem possible to gain parity on the OS front for now between the two machines.
When you look at other options, Apple's RAM prices are insane. Moving to 2 GB RAM will cost you $400. That was no surprise. What was shocking was that the Dell was almost as bad at $325. Just go to crucial.com when/if you buy either machine and want additional memory.
Apple's cost to move to a 100GB 7200 RPM drive is $100, while Dell is $324.
In terms of availability, Dell claims a ship date of 2/17. Apple just says "Feb."
I can't help but feel like the famed "Mac price premium" is a myth here. Dell currently offers cheaper Intel based computers than Apple, but feature-for-feature Apple's pricing is fair. I'm posting PDFs of both stores so you can double-check my work.
As always, the comments are open.
MacBookPro.pdf
InspironE1705.pdf
*Update 12:34pm EST* - The biggest problem with this comparison is trying to weigh the value of the Dell's 17" screen against the built-in iSight, backlit keyboard and other features on the MacBook. None of Dell's 15.4" notebooks are available with Core Duo. I've come across the Acer TravelMate 8200. Although the MacBook would have to be downgraded in some respects via a CTO order to match its specs, these look to me a much closer match feature wise. The only issue is, I can't find it for sale anywhere. If you can, please leave a comment so I can do another comparison.
This entry was posted by Mike McHargue, on
1.12.2006.
You can leave your response.
12:00 PM
There are a couple significant changes not mentioned; first and foremost, the Dell is a 17" model with two panel options, which is nice to have. Also, it weighs over 8 pounds! I also somehow doubt the Dell is 1" thick. :) Though they both are meant to be desktop replacements, Dell and Apple clearly have accepted different comprimises on the design of these products.
12:08 PM
I should have mentioned the difference in screen size in the article, even though the resolution on the two is similar. I'll make an edit to reflect that.
I couldn't find a Dell with a Core Duo and a 15" screen.
12:25 PM
The MacBook comes with a load of software that isn't present on the Dells.
That has to be worth something in the equation.
12:36 PM
15" + ati x1600 vs 17" + nvidia 7800 GT is a big plus on the Dell but you didnt mention the free iLife that comes with new Macs.
Intel iMac at $1299 is a better buy than MacBook Pro.
12:43 PM
I'll trade 17" LCD that weighs 8+ lbs anytime for 15" LCD that only weighs 5.6 lbs... I know what it's like carrying a heavy laptop around
12:55 PM
Actually, there is no advantage to the 17 inch display on the Dell if the resolutions are even close to the same. All you get with the 17 inch screen would be bigger pixels, which should be less clear than the MacBook's screen: no advantage other than "look, I have a 17 inch screen."
1:14 PM
also note that there are always a number of coupons for dell that can reduce the cost of the computer a great deal.
2:16 PM
Apple is shipping MacBook Pro Feb 15.
I bought one, and that's what the Apple website says.
2:42 PM
At 1:14 PM, Anonymous said…
also note that there are always a number of coupons for dell that can reduce the cost of the computer a great deal.
Well that will be quickly eaten up by the cost of anti-virus, anti-spyware, etc that you have to buy and of course the time it takes to maintain it (updates, process of removing once it flags a file, etc blah, blah, blah)
2:59 PM
lol, there are many free spyware and adware tools. You are just making up anti pc fud.
4:24 PM
The price point difference is sure as hell there for academic pricing. Apple is out to lunch on this aspect of selling their hardware...wow I save a whole 100 bucks going to the Apple-edu store. They need to discount their hardware for the academic (especially higher academic) market much much more.
5:09 PM
Has anyone here actually ever seen (or carried around) one of the Inspiron 17" models? We have one here at the office (one of the P4 mobile models). They're truly monstrous, both in their bulk and chinsy metallic plastic design. The 17" Toshiba models I've seen are similar. For the same price, I'll take the precision-engineered 15" MacBook Pro with a sleek anodized aluminum finish, thank you.
5:10 PM
Has anyone here actually ever seen (or carried around) one of the Inspiron 17" models? We have one here at the office (one of the P4 mobile models). They're truly monstrous, both in their bulk and chinsy metallic plastic design. The 17" Toshiba models I've seen are similar. For the same price, I'll take the precision-engineered 15" MacBook Pro with a sleek anodized aluminum finish, thank you.
6:20 PM
It's great that Dell ships the DL DVDR but without software it's useless. If you add the bundled CDR/DVDR software the Dell comes in $2 more, at $2,401.
The Dell has a modem. The resolutions are both 1440x900 so the Dell's 17" is a liability unless your eyesight is bad.
XP is also at the end of life phase, while 10.4.4 is basically equivalent to Vista, if not superior in some ways.
10:24 PM
You messed up the PDF links. They both link to the DELL.
10:24 PM
Are you trying to tell me that XP Pro's SMP support is better than BSD's???
10:32 PM
truthfully, the dell coupons end up knocking off HUNDREDS UPON HUNDREDS of dollars. the people who buy dells without searching for coupons are enabling the rest of the population to get insanely great deals which undercut apple by discounts of -- on occasion -- a thousand dollars or more (as in the new 30" LCD which can be had from dell for $1,399, compared to apple's bleed-out-the-back price).
just sayin that the coupons simply have to be factored in.
10:36 PM
The Edu discount for the MacBook is $200. Depending on the hardware, it's even been $300. And it sure beats waiting for limited-use coupons from dell. However, if you find them for the 2005fpw, jump on it! I love this monitor!
10:38 PM
Mike!!
I click a link on Digg and what pops up but Mr. McHargue's blog!
Hope everything's going well for you, and nice write-up.
-Micah "anamexis" Buckley-Farlee
10:40 PM
Another big difference is that Dell offers affordable accident protection (say, if you happen to drop your new notebook, etc.) Apple does not.
10:41 PM
"Actually, there is no advantage to the 17 inch display on the Dell if the resolutions are even close to the same. All you get with the 17 inch screen would be bigger pixels, which should be less clear than the MacBook's screen: no advantage other than "look, I have a 17 inch screen."
Um... That's assuming that you believe resolution is more important than size... most large HD TVs are way lower res than my computer monitor, but I'd still much rather watch a movie on the TV... Size matters, and if you don't think it does, you're just crazy. I think the weight is less of a big deal, especially since these are meant to be desktop replacements.
10:45 PM
about the spyware/adware...how about get a macbook, where the company that makes them actually updates their software and protects the system instead...saves a lot of time. I never want to deal with spyware adware or viruses again. I switched to a mac, and I won't...I'm not trying to be a posterboy, I'm just saying, we aren't lying to the PC world...there are very few security risks with macs.
10:45 PM
The price point difference is sure as hell there for academic pricing. Apple is out to lunch on this aspect of selling their hardware...wow I save a whole 100 bucks going to the Apple-edu store. They need to discount their hardware for the academic (especially higher academic) market much much more.
Exactly why should Apple discount more? Does Dell?
Does Apple owe you a discount just because you're a teacher or student? Do you deserve a discount for everything else you buy?
10:46 PM
I want to respond to an earlier comment about the educational discount on the MacBook Pro only being $100, but what is the educational discount on ANY of the Dell machines?
10:53 PM
I think by far the biggest addition to the macbook that any xp machine won't have is iLife. iLife in my mind has always been the over-riding factor in buying a mac, OSX playing in at a close second. Forget about specs, cpu speed, memory etc, it's the "experience" on the Mac that counts. And iLife plays a huge part of that. If iLife never existed, I would have a hard time justifying a move from my Athlon to a mac, but with iLife 06' I deffinately will do that
10:54 PM
I think by far the biggest addition to the macbook that any xp machine won't have is iLife. iLife in my mind has always been the over-riding factor in buying a mac, OSX playing in at a close second. Forget about specs, cpu speed, memory etc, it's the "experience" on the Mac that counts. And iLife plays a huge part of that. If iLife never existed, I would have a hard time justifying a move from my Athlon to a mac, but with iLife 06' I deffinately will do that
10:54 PM
I think by far the biggest addition to the macbook that any xp machine won't have is iLife. iLife in my mind has always been the over-riding factor in buying a mac, OSX playing in at a close second. Forget about specs, cpu speed, memory etc, it's the "experience" on the Mac that counts. And iLife plays a huge part of that. If iLife never existed, I would have a hard time justifying a move from my Athlon to a mac, but with iLife 06' I deffinately will do that
10:58 PM
Mike,
You may wanna change the MacBook Pro link in your original blog, they both point to the Dell PDF.
11:01 PM
Anonymous said...
lol, there are many free spyware and adware tools. You are just making up anti pc fud.
It may be anti-pc, but it's also the truth. It is fair to say that you can put a price on your time. You will spend many more hours on a pc doing system maintenance than you would on a Mac. This includes the hassle of installing anti-virus/spyware, doing very frequent updates (most of which require a restart) and having to 'lock down' your system to protect yourself from virii/spyware. Defragmentation is also not needed on a Mac as the file system takes care of it on the fly. I know from experience that NTFS get VERY fragmented. As well, you will take up system resources using anti-virus and anti-spyware programs -which are not needed on a Mac. The value of the Mac does not come in the hardware, but in the time you save not having to do things that shouldn't need being done in the first place.
11:03 PM
One *really really* big thing you are overlooking is that Dell prices are frequently massively discounted. For example, if you go price out the Dell notebook that I bought my wife it is $1400, yet I bought it for $800. This happens all the time, just watch the deal sites for a few months and you can get a good price.
Apple, on the other hand, never discounts their machines that much. The best you can hope to get is a few hundred dollars by buying an outdated model.
11:11 PM
What about the hardware warranties? I think that's a big part of the equation for many people regardless of the quality of hardware.
Also, taxes and shipping might also be something to consider. I don't know if Dell charges taxes for people outside of Texas (I live in Texas), but I know Apple does due to all their local stores.
BTW, it's not that their computer hardware is priced at a premium for some people. It's that you can't get it cheaper by dropping unwanted features. You either take a MacBook Pro with Firewire, iSight, etc., or you don't buy one.
It's like going to to a car dealership and being forced to buy tricked out rims, a spoiler, power everything, etc. Apple wants a premium experience for its users and that means a higher price of entry. That is the pricing premium that most people are looking at.
I buy Apple hardware and enjoy the platform (except their overly expensive and comparatively feature-less displays), but it cost me a pretty penny to get on board.
11:17 PM
A 15inch vs 17inch screen? What? Of course the screen alone is going to cost substantially more. And then you compare a 7800 with a x1600? Are you insane? The 7800 does laps around the x1600, ofcourse it's going to cost more.
For the Apple, he had to only add one accessory. For the Dell, he had to add how many? A few dozen? That's where they get you, is the accessories. I bet the original price of the Dell was considerably less.
What I'd like to see is for someone to take a high-end Dell with no accessories and compare it with a shitty Apple with a lot of accessories.
11:20 PM
That is a bit contrived. Currently I can go to dell here in canda and with a current coupon on there site I can get $450 off. In fact I just bought an new Toshiba recently. I wanted to by an apple, but the I couldn't find anything to match my needs that came anywhere close to the price of the Satellite. I already have a apple and intel desktop with plenty of power, so a dual core laptop didn't interest me. I wanted something that wasn't super hot and had good battery life, so I was looking for something with a smaller processor. The Toshiba came in under a thousand with free shipping from tagerdirect.ca and I recieved it in three days after ordering it less than a week before xmas. I have firewire 15.4 wide screen a very good video card with 128 MB onboard and with vga and s-video half a gig of ram etc. The best I could do a apple was a G4 with a 12.1 inch screen and only 32 MB of onboard memory on the video card. And the price $1249. I really wanted an apple laptop, but I am also a cheap scot and in the end price wins out. It is getting better , but there is still a long way to go.
11:22 PM
Truthfully, buying a Dell with the same specs as the MacBook presents an issue in comparisons. Mac OSX is a 3D accelerated desktop which takes up more RAM, so the Dell with the same amount of RAM running XP would actually be able to run more complex operations quicker than the MacBook.
11:24 PM
You left out several things: The thickness- important in comparing laptops; weight- same thing; and most importantly battery life. A 17" monitor and a go 7800 will use significantly more power than 15" and an X1600, so even if the battery is stronger, that doesn't guarantee more life.
11:31 PM
Thank you for doing the research! I tried to do such a comparison myself, but due to the chaotic layout of the Dell website, I wasn't able to.
The result is what I expected - the Apple costs a little more, but it comes with a superior operating system, iLife, a builtin high quality (at least as far as chatting cams go) camera/mic, etc.
11:31 PM
The edu store saves you $200 on the macbook, not $100.
11:33 PM
at least they give us *something*. as a uni student, i probably won't be able to afford a macbook any time soon anyways. but if i could, i'd welcome the $100 discount. what does dell offer us? nada (as far as i know).
in volume, i'm sure that apple offers education facilities a better discount than ~$100/machine.
11:36 PM
The big thing you missed is that only a fool pays full price for a Dell.
It's quite common to get a Dell for 40% or even %50 less than the price listed on the web site via frequent and easily available coupons. (See slickdeals.net, techdeals.net, or techbargins.com for evidence of this.)
For instance, I finally broke my policy of building my machines to get a Dell XPS 400. The machine was priced on Dell.com at a hair over $4400 the way I configured it. What did I pay? $2180, including shipping.
So the Dell you mentioned is likely to cost about 40% less than the price you cite.
I don't know about Apple's coupons, but Dell's are extremely aggressive.
11:40 PM
Okay you're missing the absolute most important thing. Dell's website prices are much higher than their discounts. And Dell ALWAYS has discounts.
Dell has a $750 off coupon every month, sometimes every 2 weeks. For example, last week you could have gotten http://www.slickdeals.net/#p6930 and if you wait a week, you'll be able to get the same. Any half-savvy net person should know enough to check the deal sites.
11:41 PM
Okay you're missing the absolute most important thing. Dell's website prices are much higher than their discounts. And Dell ALWAYS has discounts.
Dell has a $750 off coupon every month, sometimes every 2 weeks. For example, last week you could have gotten http://www.slickdeals.net/#p6930 and if you wait a week, you'll be able to get the same. Any half-savvy net person should know enough to check the deal sites.
11:56 PM
Hmm, when I browse the apple education store, I get 200 dollars off the MacBook Pro hardware (rather than the previously stated 100). I'm somewhat of an apple noob, so maybe I missed something, or the other person was just wrong.
11:56 PM
At 1:14 PM, Anonymous said…
also note that there are always a number of coupons for dell that can reduce the cost of the computer a great deal.
Well that will be quickly eaten up by the cost of anti-virus, anti-spyware, etc that you have to buy and of course the time it takes to maintain it (updates, process of removing once it flags a file, etc blah, blah, blah)
...AVG free, adaware free, spybot free, hijack this free, etc. You can get pretty much any type of utility software for free if you have a clue. That said, there is probably more good free software available for Windows since it has a much larger development base. (This is also meant as a response to anyone pointing out all the free software included on the MacBook)
12:30 AM
Well that will be quickly eaten up by the cost of anti-virus, anti-spyware, etc that you have to buy
Keep your comments to yourself and people will only to make guesses about your intelligence, open your mouth and youll confirm everything.
Use AVG, Zonealarm, Ad;Aware, and Spybot as well as running Firefox instead of IE and dumping Outlook and you can bring down the virus problem to zero.
Oh yeah, these are also free programs so go troll elsewhere.
12:34 AM
Don't forget too, both the Apple and Dell laptops will crap out their motherboards and power supplies within a years. Plus future versions of OSX and XP Vista will be so bloaty that the non-upgradeable graphics card, slow hard drive and motherboard will make things dog slow.
Compare that to a desktop PC that costs half as much, is more upgradeable and expandable, and lasts longer.
Also for the same price as that $400 iPod, you can get TWO HP IPaqs (like the rx3715) off ebay that play mp3s, play videos, have web browser, email, chat, word, excel, image viewing, games, builtin wireless, builtin camera, calendar, notes, etc.
12:40 AM
Kids, WTF does it matter? The object was to try to explode the ever present "Macs cost so much more than PC's" myth. And on that front, the exercise is a pretty fair whack at that goal. Now back to your corners until the bell rings for the next round.
For folks who are just trying to get a machine to do what most regular folks do on a computer, what this points out is the differences really are minimal and that more folks will probably be drawn to a platform with a superior out-of-the-box experience and though most everyone in the digerati still has a knee-jerk reflex to put it down..it just keeps chugging along picking up new fans.
Sort of like the way iPods keep selling more and more units, despite the plethora of other digital media players that are out there.
12:53 AM
Actually that's total crap. That is not an accurate comparison. THIS is. Note the price premium.
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2006/01/12/review_acer_8204wlmi/
Basically though:
Acer TravelMate 8204WLMi
2Ghz Core Duo
2GB RAM
ATI X1600 256MB
120GB HDD
1.3M rotating digital cam,
15.4-inch TFT display @ 1680x1050 rez.
Optical: 8x writing, Dual layer
Price: £1761
Apple:
1.83GHz Intel Core Duo
2Ghz RAM
ATI X1600 256MB
120GB HDD
15.4-inch TFT display @ 1440x900 resolution
Optical: 4x writing, Single Layer
Price: £2,059.01
12:54 AM
Acer TravelMate 8204WLMi:
2Ghz Core Duo
2GB RAM
ATI X1600 256MB
120GB HDD
1.3M rotating digital cam,
15.4-inch TFT display @ 1680x1050 rez.
Optical: 8x writing, Dual layer
Price: £1761
Apple:
1.83GHz Intel Core Duo
2Ghz RAM
ATI X1600 256MB
120GB HDD
15.4-inch TFT display @ 1440x900 resolution
Optical: 4x writing, Single Layer
Price: £2,059.01
12:58 AM
"Use AVG, Zonealarm, Ad;Aware, and Spybot as well as running Firefox instead of IE and dumping Outlook and you can bring down the virus problem to zero.
Oh yeah, these are also free programs so go troll elsewhere."
The point is, we can, if we want to, use the standard browser which is tastefully but not annoyingly intergrated into other parts of the OS. Or we can use firefox. We can run the standard mail app and even turn on the preview pane. Or thunderbird. We can use all the CPU cycles available from our new core duos because theres not anti-everything software using it up. We can download whatever the hell we want and open it, Sony-BMG CDs, anything P2P, even *gasp* windows metafiles.
You say the virus thing isn't a problem if you know how to work around it. We think you just shouldn't have to.
12:59 AM
"Plus future versions of OSX and XP Vista will be so bloaty that the non-upgradeable graphics card, slow hard drive and motherboard will make things dog slow."
FWIW, the 7800 GO is in fact upgradable. The x1600 may or may not be, but most likely not due to proprietary bios issues.
12:59 AM
"Plus future versions of OSX and XP Vista will be so bloaty that the non-upgradeable graphics card, slow hard drive and motherboard will make things dog slow."
FWIW, the 7800 GO is in fact upgradable. The x1600 may or may not be, but most likely not due to proprietary bios issues.
1:00 AM
"The Dell's battery is slightly stronger (60 vs. 53 WHr)". Nope, MacBook Pro's battery is a 60WHr Lithium-polymer. Are you sure Dell's is better?
1:09 AM
I found this funny:
What I'd like to see is for someone to take a high-end Dell with no accessories and compare it with a shitty Apple with a lot of accessories.
What's there to compare? With a Dell (or some other brand) you can pick and choose exactly what you want, and pay the absolute minimum possible. Apple gives you far less choice... but people don't buy Apples to get a bargain. They buy them for the experience. Unless you are trying to buy something for $500, there's an Apple to hit your price point, and truthfully they're all powerful enough for the average user. The people who need the high-end Macs are professionals, and the value is all in the platform so what's a few hundred dollars?
1:36 AM
How about everyone stops posting about Dell's coupons. I think 80% of the posts on here start out with "But you forgot the Dell coupons". We get the point. But apparently you Windows fanboys don't understand that OSX is an extremely SUPERIOR operating system. Most Mac users are not paying the premium for the hardware, and most aren't even paying for the design. They're paying for the right to use OSX. Windows does not now, nor will it ever, compare to OSX. Anyone who knows what they're talking about (e.g. has had extensive experience with both Windows, and Unix platforms) will agree on that. If you want to play games, stick with Windows. If you want to be productive, have a stable and SECURE system (I think we all can agree that Windows is far from secure), use OSX.
1:37 AM
No, the Apple's MacBook Pro has a 60 watt-hour battery and Dell has the 53 watt-hour battery.
2:14 AM
The E1705 for $1549 (expired).
So... Yeah. Dell wins the price war. I'd still buy the MacBook.
2:26 AM
OK seriously dude. If you think that XP and OS X are somewhat equal then you just haven't been doing your research or even fully experienced either OS. XP is limited in so many ways and does not network as easy as OS X. Neither does it have a great and easy to follow troubleshooter if your network isn't set up correctly (a boon to new mac users). Just do your homework
3:15 AM
"Okay you're missing the absolute most important thing. Dell's website prices are much higher than their discounts. And Dell ALWAYS has discounts."
That is true, but I doubt that you will find 40-50% discounts on laptops. You might find it on servers and desktop machines, but not on laptops.
Anyway, in the comparison the added features is a significant part of the total cost, you wont get a discount for that
3:16 AM
What I have a hard time understanding is why Dell is so evasive about the prices of their products. Their web site is easily the most obfuscated train-wreck of an e-commerce site I've ever seen.
3:20 AM
When examining the software bundle on the competing systems, it should be pointed out that Apple has been including free developer tools (and/or making the entire Xcode/IDE/GCC package available on the web) with most Macs shipped.
For those not familiar with Xcode, that's a GUI C/C++/Java IDE with integrated revision control and network distributed build capability, and some of the better code profiling/tuning tools around.
Free.
Priced MS DevStudio lately?
3:25 AM
Even if I had a mac again, it would have anti-virus/anti-spyware. ANY computer without malicious software protection is like sex without the birth control. Sure on a mac your risk may be lower, but it's still there. The "time investement for spyware and virus protection" argument is irrelevant for any smart user. Plus, it takes what? 10 minutes to install a couple programs? That's like checking my email...
The 7800 uses LESS battery than previous portable graphics cards. So with a larger battery, you'll still get more time. The difference in power requirements for the two screens is negligable. Wireless activity and hard drive activity will be more of a factor.
I'm not anti-mac in anyway, I'm tempted by the new Intels. Until Apple comes out with a 1920x1200 UXGA 17" though, my Dell will be my friend.
4:25 AM
I priced out an Inspiron 9300 as well, and spec'd it as closely to a MacBook. Yes, XP Pro, etc. no webcam, no remote, bigger screen, heavier, etc. Does Nvidia support DualLink? Anyhow, it comes out to $2592, and there's a $300 coupon.
The Acer 8200 was $2500, but the specs are slightly superior to the MacBook. What I took away is that the MacBook is price competitive with Windows Duo Cores, and that no one should expect them less than $2000, unless one gets a crippled HP Duo Core.
5:05 AM
the problem with the Mac is that when you buy it, everyone would know you are gay.
6:16 AM
The Acer TravelMate 8200 is for sale for € 2999 in Belgium.
7:26 AM
With regard the previous anonymous comment pertaining to how the next version of Mac OS X and Windows will bloat so the motherboard is hopelessly underpowered, the author should do some research.
While Windows gets slower and slower with each release, Mac OS X has gotten faster and faster with each release. 10.4 is an order of magnitude faster than 10.3, 10.2, 10.1 and 10.0. So this comment really is daft.
The next release of Mac OS X, one would have thought, will be faster than 10.4, carry more features than Vista (10.4 already does), and be more user friendly. As always.
8:30 AM
Its all fine and good to try to make a comparison, but you must realize two things...
1. This is the first round of Intel Macs and it will take a year or two for them to really figure out the best configuration. The current releases are rushed to market to counteract a dropoff in sales for people who are waiting for the switch.
2. You mentioned in your article that XP and OS X are equivalent in your opinion. Dude, you couldn't be more off. I use both operating systems as a multimedia designer and there's no comparison. XP is a mostly shameful attempt at an operating system. OS X is, and will stay, 5-7 years ahead of Vista no matter how hard they try to copy it. I'm not hating on XP becuz I prefer Mac, XP is just a sorry product. So poorly programmed, so poorly implemented. M$ should be ashamed of themselves.
After the MacBook and any other Mac have gone through at least two rounds of revisions, then you can make a fair comparison. Personally, I wouldn't buy and Intel Mac until that happens.
9:07 AM
Mike, I can remember when it was umm.. me and Jeb commenting on here.. please don't forget us little people now that you are a star on teh internets.
9:53 AM
Buy a PC without Windows, then install Linux. Beats Windows and OS X by far, in my opinion.
9:57 AM
Everyone says dell always has discounts/coupons. Well great because I want to pick up a 2405 LCD. Where is my coupon folks? Coupons are only usefull when they are on what you want to buy, when you want to buy it.
Also they may not work cross border anyway (I am in Canada-use dell.ca here).
10:24 AM
Not to be too trollish, but does the Dell come with anti-virus software? If not, add some money to it.
P.S. Can someone tell Dell that their website sucks? I tried finding the web page for the E1705 but found it difficult after trying for about 2 minutes. I think Tim Bray was right (all one line):
http://www.tbray.org/ongoing/When/200x/
2005/10/26/Dell-Huh
10:41 AM
Did anyone else notice the Powerbook prices for the G4 didn't go down at all? Don't forget there isn't classic support in Rosetta so if you need old apps you're in the cold. The single layer 4 X DVD isn't hot and I could care less about a remote I'll lose on the road. Most gov. jobs won't allow cameras either so Apple has limited the market this will go to if it isn't customizable. I think I'll wait til the next generation, the G4 1.33 I use still works!
10:42 AM
Hey, i have used macs for years and know quite a bit about how the oS works as well as the hardware. Running OS X on mac hardware is not the same as running XP on a dell. Mac OS X uses less ram to run applications and doesn't need as big a processor to run complex apps. So a mac with 1G of ram and two Ghz of processor speed is equivalent to about 1.5 to 2 gigs of ram and 3 ghz of processor speed on a dell.
ps: I also have a windows and use them all the time at work
10:43 AM
Hey, i have used macs for years and know quite a bit about how the oS works as well as the hardware. Running OS X on mac hardware is not the same as running XP on a dell. Mac OS X uses less ram to run applications and doesn't need as big a processor to run complex apps. So a mac with 1G of ram and two Ghz of processor speed is equivalent to about 1.5 to 2 gigs of ram and 3 ghz of processor speed on a dell.
ps: I also have a windows and use them all the time at work
10:49 AM
Another point of difference between the Dell and the Apple is that the Dell uses a Lithium-ion battery. The Apple uses a Lithium-polymer battery. Don't ask me what the difference is, but I know that the Lithium-polymer technology is new to market with the MacBook Pro being the first portable that features it. It's part of the reason they don't have battery life estimates yet. I'm still told battery life wont be spectacular, but I just wanted to point that out. Oh, and bollocks to the person who posted comparisons in Pounds Sterling. Thos machines don't compare in terms of WEIGHT. I thought everyone knew that you pay a "premium" for lighter laptops. If one weights 7 lbs and another 5.5, but are the same every othe rway, then the 5.5 version will be significantly more expensive.
You just can't do a valid side-by-side.
10:56 AM
I think you need to include the +$149 UltraSharp option on the Dell to meet par with the MacBook's brightness and resolution.
11:01 AM
Somehow I don't find a comparison between a Dell/Acer and the MacBook Pro very appropriate...to me that's like comparing oranges to, well, apples. IMHO seeing how Apple positions its new high-end lappy, we should compare it against something equally premium, eg. the new VAIO FE series.
11:10 AM
I bought a similar machine last month to the Dell you mentioned (coming off a Powerbook) and one thing all buyers must consider with Dell is that they offer coupons that grant significant savings. The final price on my computer, with basically the exact same specs, came to roughly $1300. I had a $750 off coupon, a $20 off coupon, and an additional 2% off for signing up with Dell financing, which I then closed right away.
As far as I can tell, aside from small education discounts, Apple does not even come close to matching this. I think that absolutely must be considered by any buyer making the choice.
Now that I have a Dell and Apple is using Intel chips, my hope is that we'll get a good OSX emulator.
Plus, I'll take the 17" monitor any day, over a 15". I think that's a significant difference as well.
11:14 AM
Hmmm... there seems to be some debate here. I'll try to clear some of it up?
1. The 17" screen is a bad thing! Yes, I know that in some cases size does matter, but some of you seem to be neglecting the fact that the resolutions are the same. In other words, the screens display the same amount of information! If they were both running the same OS, the desktops would be identical.
2. Macs have better battery life than Dells! Maybe the 7800 uses less battery power, and maybe the Mac's battery is slightly less powerful, but I can get 4 hours out of my 12" PowerBook (can you say the same about your Dell?), and supposedly the new Intel processors consume less power than the PowerPCs.
3. Yes, Dell may have coupons, but you'd have to pay much much more than you'd save to get the software included (free) in a Mac. The entire iLife software package. Windows Movie Maker is a sad, sad imitation of iMovie. And what about iDVD, iPhoto, and most of all, Xcode? You'd have to pay lots and losts of money to get those for Windows.
Sorry, I know these have all been said before, just wanted to clear some of this up. Good comparison, by the way.
11:38 AM
Apple's stuff costs a few hundred more if you look at the big picture in certain ways. In my opinion, if I am spending in that price range anyway, I would rather get the stuff I think is cooler. For me that is the MacBook hands down.
11:43 AM
Apparently you don't understand much about SMP. OSX, and its Mach Microkernel work nicely with SMP's, so far including dual processors(dual G5's) to the dual processor dual core "quad G5s". I hope you actually have seen windows running on a multiprocessor before. I certainly have not, although I have used linux and OSX and various other unix on SMPs.
11:44 AM
My Dell XPS laptop is still really awesome:
3.4ghz
1gig of ram
100 + 20 gig hd
ati 9800 256 mb
I got mine for around 750ish~ USD used :)
12:01 PM
"Truthfully, buying a Dell with the same specs as the MacBook presents an issue in comparisons. Mac OSX is a 3D accelerated desktop which takes up more RAM, so the Dell with the same amount of RAM running XP would actually be able to run more complex operations quicker than the MacBook."
Are you mad? This stuff has been hard-written into the OS for years and it's managed far more efficiently than XP's take on any of the "effects" (hence why XP is far less flashy than OS X).
Let's taken an example. On my PowerBook G4 with 1.33Ghz, I can comfortably take a quicktime or VLC window playing DVD footage or div-x movies and turn it transparent, drag and resize with no noticable lag or processor spikes and this was back before I upgraded from 256MB of ram to a gig for my home video editing!
12:07 PM
I believe the educational discount on Mac hardware is $200. I think one thing you have to factor in on this is that the case on the MacBook is vastly superior to the one on the Dell. I mean, the plastic they use on the Dell is soooo cheap, when you open the laptop you can feel the 3 cent hinge they use, holding onto the 2 cent plastic they use as a case.
When you hold a Powerbook (or I'm sure MacBook Pro) you actually feel the quality. The guts of the computers are very similar so I think in this case you gotta start thinking build quality.
12:18 PM
Anon said, "the problem with the Mac is that when you buy it, everyone would know you are gay."
Yeah, and that XP default wallpaper with the big green field and pretty clouds is real hetro.
12:20 PM
i've been mostly a mac user for years, i yes i love macs, but i switched to a windows averatec laptop recently for its unmatchable lower price
i feared i would hate windows, but what i noticed instead is that this old OS battle is less and less relevant in this internet era
if anything, windows would be better because of its superior compatibility both online and offline
12:43 PM
"Even if I had a mac again, it would have anti-virus/anti-spyware. ANY computer without malicious software protection is like sex without the birth control. Sure on a mac your risk may be lower, but it's still there. The "time investement for spyware and virus protection" argument is irrelevant for any smart user. Plus, it takes what? 10 minutes to install a couple programs? That's like checking my email..."
LOL, I'd love to see somebody use anti-spyware/anti-virus on a mac. I've owned all kinds of different macs for the last 8 years and not a single one of them (including the 3 I have right now) have EVER been touched by anything. The idea of my mac getting a virus is overwhelmingly laughable and technically almost impossible. BTW, it takes 10 minutes for you to check your email? You NEED a mac. ;)
1:33 PM
rofl at the desperate mac fannyboys trying to show there's no price difference with a skewed flawed analysis (screen size ffs u idiot jobs-suckers, I managed to spec an almost identical pc laptop for $600 less, erm just look beyond dell u dimwitted macophants.
I use osx and xp at work, and the g5 crashes a lot more than the athlon pc. Overrated rubbish. The athlon pc is also faster and was cheaper. Simple fact is, osx is for posers, gays, and girls.
3:20 PM
Umm... firstly "Simple fact is, osx is for posers, gays, and girls."... YAY! SEXISM! HOMOPHOBIA! YAY!
Secondly: " I managed to spec an almost identical pc laptop for $600 less, erm just look beyond dell u dimwitted macophants."
Apple is a commercial computer company. Dell is a commercial computer company. My Dad, your aunt, the kid down the street, the local florist, Grandpa etc etc, don't spec laptops from "crazy Steve's house of computer bits and bobs" they buy them from commercial computer companies.
Umm.. does Intel make Athlon? My goodness you do like your apples and your oranges and comparing them both.